In this episode, John Maxwell Zooms with Miles McPherson, pastor of the Rock Church in San Diego, California, and author of The Third Option: Hope for a Racially Divided Nation. They discuss the importance of celebrating what different races have in common, the often-overlooked paradox of being “colorblind” to race, and the value of confronting our own blind spots.

Mark Cole is joined by Traci Morrow for the application portion of the episode to discuss John and Miles’s conversation. They each share how maintaining a learning posture has challenged and changed their own perspectives.

Our BONUS resources for this episode are the Third Option Worksheet, which includes fill-in-the-blank notes from John’s teaching, and the live video of the entire discussion between John, Miles, and Mark. You can download the worksheet and find the video link by visiting


The Third Option by Miles McPherson

Miles McPherson on Anderson Cooper 360°

Leadershift by John C. Maxwell

The 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth by John C. Maxwell

The John Maxwell Online Store

Other news